Why do clients understand what they need to do—but still struggle to follow through?
In this episode of the Health Coach Academy Podcast, Omar Cumberbatch sits down with neuroscientist and former CPA Dr. Irena O’Brien to explore the brain science behind behavior change, emotional eating, willpower, nervous-system regulation, and sustainable coaching results.
Dr. O’Brien explains that the brain’s primary purpose is not simply thinking or decision-making. Its main job is to keep us safe, conserve energy, and predict what will happen next. That means many habits, cravings, avoidance patterns, and repetitive behaviors may be the brain’s attempt to protect us from something it perceives as costly, uncertain, or threatening.
This conversation gives health coaches a practical new way to understand why clients get stuck—and how to help them change without relying on more pressure, motivation, or willpower.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn
- Why the brain prioritizes safety and survival over personal goals
- How the predictive brain creates and reinforces habits
- Why emotional eating may be an energy-management strategy
- What the brain may be protecting a client from when change feels difficult
- Why willpower problems are often capacity problems
- How the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems affect behavior
- Why vision and the “ideal self” can create energy for change
- How longer exhales may support nervous-system regulation
- Why small, repeated steps are more effective than dramatic change
- How sleep, movement, nutrition, music, breathing, and relationships help restore capacity
- Why insight alone is not always enough to create behavioral change
The Brain Is a Prediction Machine
Dr. O’Brien describes the brain as a prediction machine that constantly compares current experiences with past experiences. When a familiar situation appears, the brain often predicts the same response it used before because repeating an established pattern requires less energy than creating a new one.
This is one reason habits can be so difficult to change. The brain may continue predicting the same behavior until new experiences gradually teach it that another response is possible.
For health coaches, this creates an important shift in perspective. Instead of asking only, “Why won’t this client follow the plan?”, a more useful question may be:
“What is this person’s brain trying to protect them from?”
Emotional Eating, Anxiety, and Energy
The discussion also explores how emotional eating and repetitive behaviors may reduce a different kind of emotional or metabolic cost.
A person may reach for comfort food because processing the underlying emotion feels more demanding to the brain. Similarly, a repetitive behavior may temporarily reduce anxiety, making the behavior feel energetically safer than resisting it.
Dr. O’Brien emphasizes that mental, emotional, and physical energy are not separate systems. They are all connected through the body’s metabolic processes and energetic capacity.
Start With the Ideal Self
One of the most practical coaching strategies in the episode is helping clients connect with their ideal self—the person they want to become.
Rather than focusing exclusively on a number on the scale, coaches can help clients explore questions such as:
- Who do you want to become?
- What kind of person do you want to be for yourself and your family?
- What would achieving this goal make possible in your life?
- How would that future feel in your body?
Dr. O’Brien explains that connecting with a meaningful vision can create a positive emotional state, activate the parasympathetic nervous system, and generate more capacity for the work of change.
During the conversation, Omar applies this exercise to his own goal of becoming the Million Dollar Health Coach, identifying freedom, influence, hope, and peace as the deeper emotional drivers behind that vision.
Why Tiny Steps Matter
The brain prefers familiar patterns because they are predictable and energetically inexpensive. Large changes can trigger resistance because they require more uncertainty, effort, and energy.
That is why Dr. O’Brien recommends tiny, repeated steps.
Small steps allow clients to stretch their capacity without overwhelming the brain’s safety system. Over time, those new experiences can help reshape predictions, create new pathways, and make the desired behavior feel more familiar.
The goal is not to force the brain into instant transformation. The goal is to give it enough safe, repeated evidence to begin predicting a new response.
How to Build Energetic Capacity
Many people are living in a chronically activated sympathetic, or stress-dominant, state. That can drain energy and make behavior change feel harder than it needs to be.
Dr. O’Brien recommends helping clients restore capacity through practical tools such as:
- Quality sleep
- Breathwork
- Moderate exercise
- Supportive nutrition
- Meditation
- Rhythmic music
- Joyful activities
- Time with family and friends
- Nervous-system regulation
She also explains that breathing with an exhale that is at least as long as the inhale may help balance the stress response with the relaxation response.
When the nervous system is better resourced, clients may find it easier to make decisions, tolerate discomfort, and follow through on the actions that support their goals.
The Real “Brain Hack”
Although many people search for quick neuroscience hacks, Dr. O’Brien keeps the answer grounded:
Build safety. Increase capacity. Take small, repeated steps.
When willpower is low, the problem may not be laziness or lack of desire. The person may simply lack the energetic capacity required for the behavior at that moment.
That insight can help coaches replace judgment with curiosity—and create plans that work with the brain instead of against it.
About Dr. Irena O’Brien
Dr. Irena O’Brien is a neuroscientist, educator, writer, and host of the Neuroscience of Coaching podcast. Before entering neuroscience, she spent approximately 15 years working as a CPA and tax accountant. After the birth of her third child, she returned to university, studied psychology and neurobiology, and ultimately earned a PhD in neuropsychology.
Her work focuses on making brain science practical for coaches, therapists, practitioners, and professionals who help people create meaningful behavioral change.
Free Resource: Applied Neuroscience Starter Kit
Dr. O’Brien created the Applied Neuroscience Starter Kit for coaches, therapists, and practitioners who want to understand what the brain is doing when clients struggle to change.
The resource includes:
- Ten neuroscience insights explaining why clients get stuck
- Practical applications for coaching sessions
- A brain-based change blueprint
- The three conditions required for change: safety, capacity, and small repeated steps
Access the resource at:
loveneuroscience.com/academy
Key Takeaways for Health Coaches
Behavior change is not simply a matter of giving clients better information.
Clients may already understand exactly what they need to do. The challenge is helping their brains experience the new behavior as safe, manageable, and energetically possible.
Effective coaching may therefore involve:
- Exploring what the current behavior is protecting
- Building nervous-system capacity
- Connecting goals to identity and purpose
- Reducing the size of the next step
- Repeating new behaviors long enough to change the brain’s predictions
- Supporting sleep, nutrition, movement, breathing, and emotional regulation
When coaches understand the predictive brain, they can stop treating resistance as failure and begin seeing it as useful information.
[00:00:00] Omar Cumberbatch: Hey, Dr. Irina. How are you today? Welcome to the show.
[00:00:05] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Oh, I’m doing well today. Thank you for inviting me, Omar.
[00:00:08] Omar Cumberbatch: Oh, my pleasure. Yeah. It’s something that I think health coaches will benefit greatly from. We have a awesome show just about a lot of stuff that we are trying to understand a little better.
[00:00:19] And this is the- the brain and how we can get more better results for our clients. And yeah, you have an amazing background story, so I’ll let, definitely let you get into that. I’d love to hear your origin story and share that with the crowd. I also wanna say that, you’re from my favorite city in the world.
[00:00:37] This is Montreal, Canada. We talked about a little in the green room about just the wonders of Montreal and how it was such an influence in me d- diving into the health space. But before we, dabble in that a little bit, I wanted to give the audience the opportunity to get to know you a little bit better.
[00:00:53] So I just wanna hear a little bit about your origin story, if you could share. Okay. I’m a neuroscientist now, but that wasn’t my first career. My first ca- in my first career, I was a CPA, right? Yeah. Okay. And I was a tax accountant. And and I did that for about 15 years.
[00:01:13] Wow.
[00:01:14] Dr. Irena O’Brien: But after my third child was born, I didn’t wanna go back to accounting.
[00:01:19] It just wasn’t fulfilling. And so I went back to school. I went back to university. I had to do another undergraduate degree. And I went back in psychology. And in my first semester back, I took a course on neurobiology, and it blew my mind. I felt like my mind had been let out of a box, and I ended up going all the way to a PhD in neuropsychology.
[00:01:49] And I’m still just as in love with neuroscience as I was when I took my first course- … in neurobiology. Yeah.
[00:01:58] Omar Cumberbatch: That is an incredible jump from accounting to neuroscience.
[00:02:03] Dr. Irena O’Brien: It all depends… so I went into accounting because we– it was always drilled into us to safety and security.
[00:02:12] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah.
[00:02:12] Dr. Irena O’Brien: It was always drilled into us. And so accounting is a secure career, but this is what I’m meant to do.
[00:02:19] Omar Cumberbatch: So what was it that you fell in love with initially about neuroscience?
[00:02:25] Dr. Irena O’Brien: That there was, the learning was unlimited. Like I could just keep on learning forever, and I do. I still have my newsfeed, I read research studies every day.
[00:02:36] I like to write about neuroscience, and I like to transmit it to the learnings to students and and and in my writings because there’s just so much to learn. People think it’s so complicated, but it’s really not that complicated. Yes, the research studies are, but once you extract the learnings from it, it’s very illuminating- and very doable.
[00:03:00] Omar Cumberbatch: So I think one of the things that’s interesting about the field, and again, obviously y- you are the expert, but I, we do dabble in it. I topically do it. It’s very popular. It’s a hot topic. That’s one of the reasons why I wanted you on the show to discuss it as well, is that we don’t know
[00:03:16] We know way more than I guess we’ve ever done, but it’s almost like we don’t know anything either, right? Is that an accurate statement?
[00:03:25] Dr. Irena O’Brien: It is, yeah. It is pre- it is pretty accurate. We don’t know everything, and we’re learning more every day. Yeah. Okay. And there have been, current models are very different from the models I had when I started- in university, or the second time in university. So the models are very different now. And it is all about models because that’s how science works, right? We have this model has been shown until a new model comes up. So right now these are the models that we’re using, and I can talk about those.
[00:03:59] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah. Would love to hear. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:01] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah. So I think a good place to start is the purpose of the brain. Most people think the pur- the, the purpose of the brain is thinking or feeling or decision-making, but it’s not. The brain’s purpose is to keep us safe And alive. So that is the purpose of the brain, to, to, yeah, to keep us safe and and survival.
[00:04:27] And the brain is also a prediction machine. So the brain doesn’t just react to what’s happening around us, it predicts what it will need Yeah. So it even predicts our reactions as… So think about that you’re have- you’re going for a walk in the woods and you think you might see a bear, right?
[00:04:51] But you’re not sure. But, so you don’t want your brain to wait until it’s absolutely sure to tell you to get the heck out of there. It’ll say, “Okay, get the heck out of there,” because it’s predicting that’s a bear. It might be wrong, but it’ll keep you safe- … and surviving.
[00:05:10] And so the reactions are fast. And it w- it’s what helps you have other fast reactions in other areas, like driving a car, because imagine if the brain had to go through all the decision process before you could make the next move. And so it’s predicting that, and the same with in sports where you have to be really fast, and in, in every other area of our life.
[00:05:33] So it makes the brain efficient. So whenever you have incoming stimuli, and the stimuli can be, from your own body, which is called interoception, or from external, which is called extra- extro- exteroception, it… The brain kind of has a conversation with itself and asks, “Huh, the last time I was in this situation, what did I do?”
[00:06:02] Okay, we’ll do it again. And so that’s why habits are hard to change. Because your brain is gonna keep predicting the same thing over and over again, unless you start to change it. And if you don’t challenge it, it could predict you right into a behavioral straitjacket.
[00:06:20] Omar Cumberbatch: And of course, I guess that leads where we’re trying to get a little better understanding, because obviously as health coaches we wanna get better results for our clients.
[00:06:28] And obviously what you had just mentioned is very relevant. Changing behavior is very difficult.
[00:06:35] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yes …
[00:06:35] Omar Cumberbatch: what would you think are some of the things that health coaches should be aware of that could actually help in behavior change?
[00:06:45] Dr. Irena O’Brien: It really does go back to the purpose of the brain, which is safety and and survival.
[00:06:51] And so the brain is constantly predicting, is managing energy and constantly predicting- … how much energy you’ll need and how much energy whatever you’re trying to do will cost. And so once you start looking at behavior from that lens, it changes what you think about that behavior and how you approach that behavior.
[00:07:13] So a question to ask is, what’s your brain protecting you from- … if you can’t change, right? What’s your brain protecting you from?
[00:07:24] Omar Cumberbatch: So that’s an interesting dynamic, right? ‘Cause of course you q- you mentioned the bear. Yeah. Very obvious. Why is it that it protects us from things that are not threatening physically, right?
[00:07:40] So we definitely dive into a lot of stuff with food and the food idea. And all the emotions that happen around food, and protection is definitely an element of that too. There’s a lot of people who… That’s why they call it comfort food. It’s the, it’s not by accident, right? Why does it do that?
[00:07:58] Why does the brain do that?
[00:08:00] Dr. Irena O’Brien: So a lot of the eating is emotional eating. So sometimes it could be that the emotion is difficult to experience, and it’ll cost too much energy. And so rather than the brain deciding to expend energy on it, it will do something like have you eat something, do some comfort eating- instead.
[00:08:27] Omar Cumberbatch: And energy, when you say energy, it’s not just like the w- the energy that we imagine, right? So I, I always share with my audience I have OCDs, right? Yeah. With the OCDs themselves, I know the energy that’s exerted in actually performing the, quote-unquote, “rituals” that I have to do to, to make myself feel like okay.
[00:08:47] Is that the energy you’re talking about? Because obviously there’s two different… the image of energy is s- I could g- guess can vary, right? Can you get into that a little bit?
[00:08:55] Dr. Irena O’Brien: There’s only, there’s really only one kind of energy. And it’s mitochondria.
[00:08:59] Omar Cumberbatch: Okay.
[00:09:00] Dr. Irena O’Brien: So there is no such thing as like mindset energy or brain energy and physical energy.
[00:09:06] They are one in the same thing. So when it comes to your OCD, so if you look at, if you look at that from the perspective of the brain’s purpose being safety and survival your brain thinks that doing these these repetitive things that you do is costing it less energy than not doing them.
[00:09:29] Yeah. D- do you understand what I mean by that? Be- because they’re obviously, they’re obviously minimizing some kind of of emotional… I don’t know if it’s an emotional, but it’s minimizing some kind of some kind of effort in another area.
[00:09:43] Omar Cumberbatch: That’s what I was trying to think of, right?
[00:09:45] Yeah. I- if I do it this way, How about this? If I don’t do it this way, I’ll have- … the, the anxiety emotions on the back end of it. That’s the energy that you’re referring to?
[00:09:56] Dr. Irena O’Brien: That’s the energy, whi- which is metabolically, metabolically costly.
[00:10:01] Omar Cumberbatch: Ooh. Okay.
[00:10:02] Dr. Irena O’Brien: So for you, the brain says it is less energy demanding to do these repetitive actions than to deal with that anxiety in a different way.
[00:10:14] Omar Cumberbatch: Okay. So if we push it into the food category, and it again it would be similar. “If I eat this, I’ll feel better,” and less energy is expended. Is that- Yes. Okay. So I get… now this is great. I… This is very fascinating ’cause it definitely puts a spin on it. So I guess to correct this behavior there has to be something that i, in our brain that I guess disproves that reality, ’cause it’s not real, right?
[00:10:45] Like I… You know what I mean? It, there is- Yeah. Yeah. It’s not a physical threat. Correct. All right. So yeah, how… So yeah, that, I guess this is what, obviously the first question that I was gonna jump into. I, not necessarily said first, but this is the question I was dying to cover. Yeah, how do we do…
[00:10:59] correct this? I know I’ve heard of things of neuroplasticity. Our brains do actually have the ability to change and all that good stuff. So what are some tips that you would give to health coaches for us to, I don’t wanna say sell, but to get our clients on a better path and change the behavior?
[00:11:17] Because obviously they’re coming to us, hiring us for specific things that they can’t get over.
[00:11:22] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yes. So with regard to… I would imagine that most of it has to do with emotional eating.
[00:11:31] Omar Cumberbatch: Even if they don’t know it, yeah.
[00:11:32] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Even if they don’t know it, it has to do with with emotional eating. And so it… You really, in order…
[00:11:39] You really have to address that, that emotion.
[00:11:44] Omar Cumberbatch: And-
[00:11:45] Dr. Irena O’Brien: And work and work through whatever it is.
[00:11:49] Omar Cumberbatch: And when you say work through, are there strategies specifically that you would recommend for anyone to kinda get that moving?
[00:12:00] Dr. Irena O’Brien: There, there are some, Let me go into coaching now. There are some theories in coaching.
[00:12:05] There’s one that I really like especially because it, it is science-based. And it’s about getting in touch first with your ideal self. So the ideal self is really who you want to become, and we all have that, right? We all have our bigger purpose, our vision, what kind of person we want to be.
[00:12:25] So when you get in touch with that, that is… That, th- that creates positive energy. And it creates what we call a positive emotional attractor, so a cascade of positive emotions. It activates the parasympathetic nervous system. So you know about parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems.
[00:12:47] Omar Cumberbatch: I do, but I- Do you want me
[00:12:48] Dr. Irena O’Brien: to explain that?
[00:12:48] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah, it would be great to explain just in case other folks-
[00:12:51] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah … who are
[00:12:51] Omar Cumberbatch: listening may
[00:12:52] Dr. Irena O’Brien: not. Okay. So the sympathetic nervous system is our stress response. It’s our fight or flight response. And the parasympathetic nervous system is our rest and digest or our relaxation response.
[00:13:06] And the ideal way to live really is to, And we can manage that through breathwork. That’s one of the most popular ways to manage it, through breathwork. And the ideal is to, so when we breathe in, we’re activating that stress response. When we breathe out, we’re activating the relaxation response.
[00:13:25] And so you should breathe… The ideal way to breathe is in a way that y- the out breath is at least as long as the in breath. There are many models o- of breathing, but in a nutshell our out breath should be at least as long as our in breath. And when we do that, we’re balancing out the stress response with the relaxation response.
[00:13:48] So when you’re activating your ideal self or the kind of person that you want to become, you’re also activating the parasympathetic nervous system. And the thing also, when you’re in the parasympathetic nervous system, that creates energy. Whereas in the sympathetic nervous system, that consumes energy.
[00:14:08] So when you can activate the ideal the i- the ideal self, you’re creating energy to then do the work. To start, Yeah, to, to then do the work. And so that’s a fantastic way to start every coaching session is what kind of person do you want to become? Who do you want to become?
[00:14:28] And really have them get in touch with that.
[00:14:31] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah, I guess that’s a great way to frame it because, obviously they- they’re coming to us to solve some- something. And I don’t know if in my experience a lot of folks necessarily go through that exercise, at least that… ‘Cause, I do a lot of weight loss coaching, right?
[00:14:50] Yeah … one of the things that, they say, “I wanna lose 15 pounds,” or, “I wanna lose 20 pound,” “I wanna lose 50 pounds.” And that’s the goal, right? And I don’t know if it… I definitely would like to incorporate that aspect of it because, they all just come up with a number. They’re not necessarily are addressing the person that they wanna become after that 15, 20, 50, whatever pounds that they actually lose.
[00:15:16] It’s more just like a, an isolated number that has to do with the scale. So it’s really l- I guess limited. I never thought about it like that, so I appreciate that you kinda said it that way, ’cause I think that’s an interesting reframe.
[00:15:28] Dr. Irena O’Brien: We could try it now if you’d like. Okay.
[00:15:31] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah.
[00:15:32] Dr. Irena O’Brien: So who if you’d like to share who you’d like to become, by mean share it, but if not that’s okay too.
[00:15:38] Just activate… think about the kind of person that you wanna become, the kind of person that you wanna be for yourself, for your family, for your kids.
[00:15:48] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah. I’ll definitely do the exercise. I… but here’s an interesting thing. I think because I’ve never thought about it in that way- Yeah … that image necessarily.
[00:15:56] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah.
[00:15:57] Omar Cumberbatch: Like I said, I have goals, but- Yeah … I’ve never put the goals into like this h- human avatar, right? Which-
[00:16:05] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah …
[00:16:06] Omar Cumberbatch: let me think about that. That’s a ‘Cause I wanna do the exercise for the audience, oh, damn. Okay, I wanna be the million-dollar health coach.
[00:16:13] That’s who I wanna be.
[00:16:14] Dr. Irena O’Brien: That’s who you wanna be. Okay. Yeah. What would that give you f- if when you’re the million-dollar health coach?
[00:16:19] Omar Cumberbatch: Freedom influence hoping peace. Yeah, let’s start with that.
[00:16:27] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah. So how does that feel in your body?
[00:16:31] Omar Cumberbatch: Great.
[00:16:33] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah. It does.
[00:16:35] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah.
[00:16:35] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah. It feels fantastic. Yeah, and so you’re in the parasympathetic nervous system, right? You’re activating these positive emotions. And so then you’re creating that energy to be able to make a plan and do the work. And so then when you start thinking after that, “Okay, what’s one step that would bring me closer to that?”
[00:16:58] And for you or for your client, it might be that they wanna lose some weight because they just wanna be that better person for their family and for their children. And so that consumes some energy, but now you have energy. So when you think about… So what is a step that you think about that could get you to or could start getting you to that ideal self?
[00:17:20] One step.
[00:17:25] Omar Cumberbatch: I’ll give a step that I guess I’ve been avoiding, is just being more out there on, say, social media.
[00:17:32] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah. And so how does that feel in your body?
[00:17:35] Omar Cumberbatch: Being out on social media?
[00:17:36] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah.
[00:17:37] Omar Cumberbatch: Horrifying.
[00:17:38] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah.
[00:17:39] Omar Cumberbatch: Yes.
[00:17:40] Dr. Irena O’Brien: There you go. So that is the difference. That consumes the energy. So you… That’s why activating your ideal self a lot of people do call it vision.
[00:17:51] It’s really we all wanna become something, right? Because that’s how life is. We’re not, we’re not, we haven’t reached our pinnacle. We wanna always become something. Yeah, and that gives you the energy to be able to do the work, and it activates different brain systems too.
[00:18:08] Omar Cumberbatch: It’s fascinating that it’s it, the way that you simplified it is really cool. I don’t, I’ve never thought about it like that and it’s simple, right? It’s it makes a lot of sense. I guess one of the things that I, w- we always have difficulty is I guess people looking for more complicated answers and things…
[00:18:30] so for instance, say the social media thing. Yeah. Or le- let’s go to s- the person who wants to lose the weight. They are also looking for… ‘Cause th- there’s an element to that too, right? Where it’s, there could be an emotional tie to it, and their next steps may not be in line with what actually will get them results because they have another obstacle beyond that to-
[00:18:52] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yes
[00:18:53] Omar Cumberbatch: deal with.
[00:18:54] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yes. And so it is important to look at that other obstacle also. Yeah.
[00:18:59] Omar Cumberbatch: So you’re just kind of- E- yeah, it’s a lot of work. It’s a, you, it’s a it could be layered, it could be a lot of different things because actually, like when you get to the o- one, one obstacle, then you ki- I don’t wanna say climb that mountain, but there’s definitely something else there.
[00:19:15] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah. And another way to put it is capacity. Energetic capacity. Sometimes we just don’t have that energetic capacity and we have to build it, right? The ideal self. Right? Your vision, that’ll build that capacity. And then, but these are things you k- you know about, right?
[00:19:35] Also about diet, exercise, and sleep. And good sleep will restore capacity.
[00:19:41] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah. Yeah, it’s just interesting that, like I said, from a- an energy perspective because there’s a… I i- didn’t realize that the consequences of our actions or inactions causes an energy misalignment with the brain that’s causing us to do all these things.
[00:20:04] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah.
[00:20:04] Omar Cumberbatch: But it makes sense because you, I guess theoretically we would wanna just sit around and do nothing and be safe, right? So if we have any vision, we wouldn’t… It’s it’s almost counterintuitive to the brain
[00:20:20] Dr. Irena O’Brien: It’s, it seems counterintuitive to the brain, but the r- brain really doesn’t care about your goals
[00:20:26] Omar Cumberbatch: that’s what I mean. Yeah.
[00:20:27] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah. It just cares about keeping you alive and safe and that’s all about energy, right? Because we’re energy beings and our energy constantly fluctuates, and if we run out of energy, in the end we die.
[00:20:41] So it is about maintaining capacity and energy. And the, the other thing too is small steps. Like tiny steps. Because that can, … Because your predictive brain is gonna, is going to fight change. It … Because it wants to keep doing the same thing over and over again, because it is ener- it is energetically inexpensive to keep doing the same things over and over again.
[00:21:06] And so to change it requires more energy. So if you take small steps, it can it’ll … Yeah, if you take small steps, you’re only pushing the envelope a little bit at a time.
[00:21:17] Omar Cumberbatch: That’s fascinating.
[00:21:18] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Not something that’s gonna freak you out and have the brain say, “Stop. No, we can’t do this at all.”
[00:21:25] Omar Cumberbatch: So I guess that’s why exposure therapy and like you said, things that you’re just putting very small minimal steps towards gets the, your brain to stretch a little bit, and then-
[00:21:40] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yes.
[00:21:41] Omar Cumberbatch: Okay. All right. No, that, this, it’s fascinating to think of it like that. It really is. It’s a definitely-
[00:21:45] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah
[00:21:46] Omar Cumberbatch: interesting
[00:21:46] Dr. Irena O’Brien: component. And the beauty of it is that your brain is built on past experience, so everything that you’ve experienced is in your brain. That’s what’s building. And it’s con- your brain is constantly being built b- based on your experience. So when you start pushing the envelope just a little bit- you’re starting to change your brain, you’re starting to change its predictions. Right? Eventually, right? Not on one try, but eventually you’re starting to create new pathways and start to change its predictions.
[00:22:16] Omar Cumberbatch: Okay. So I have a super selfish question. I’m wondering if I just should do it off air because it’s fa- it’s fascinating.
[00:22:26] I don’t wanna, you know what? I’ll throw it out there. It’s not… I shouldn’t even say selfish, it’s just curiosity because again, there’s so many different in- interesting things about the brain now. Do you think the brain is or in your research is where thoughts are actually held or is it more of a receiver or transmitter?
[00:22:45] I know that’s a it,
[00:22:46] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah …
[00:22:47] Omar Cumberbatch: there’s a lot
[00:22:47] Dr. Irena O’Brien: of- I’m not gonna… Yeah, I’m not gonna go into that. Yeah … it’s beyond, yeah. I know that there’s a lot of a lot of research, there’s a lot of thought about that. Yeah
[00:23:00] Omar Cumberbatch: It, it’s-
[00:23:01] Dr. Irena O’Brien: it’s not settled, right? It’s not settled in the way that our brain being a prediction machine is more settled, right?
[00:23:10] Omar Cumberbatch: But it though I guess that’s a… i’m very curious about your hesitancy about it because I’m sure that you have an opinion. So it’s, I guess why can’t the brain be multiple things, at, in that concept, right? You definitely… It’s solidified as a predictable, a, a prediction model, right?
[00:23:32] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah.
[00:23:33] Omar Cumberbatch: But there is also some thought that, like, why couldn’t it be some… And have other characteristics, even though unsettled.
[00:23:42] Dr. Irena O’Brien: I know, but it’s n- it’s not my, it’s not my area. Have you read Dan Brown’s new book?
[00:23:48] Omar Cumberbatch: No, I haven’t. Yeah, I gotta check that out. I-
[00:23:50] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah, I can’t… Obviously, the name escapes me, but I have been reading that book and it is about noetics and about the brain being a receiver.
[00:24:00] Omar Cumberbatch: Really?
[00:24:01] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah, about the brain being a receiver. So that’s pretty much as far as I know. I’m agnostic about that, meaning that it could be, but I don’t know.
[00:24:14] Omar Cumberbatch: Huh. I gotta tell, I, I used to be a big fan of Dan Brown’s, obviously with the Da Vinci Code stuff and all that. I used to read a lot of- The
[00:24:22] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Secret of Secrets.
[00:24:23] It’s called The Secret of Secrets.
[00:24:25] Omar Cumberbatch: Okay. And
[00:24:26] Dr. Irena O’Brien: I- Yeah. It’s just as good as his other books …
[00:24:29] Omar Cumberbatch: I’m gonna get it. Yeah, absolutely. I love how he, I… He’s a good writer when it comes to that kind of stuff. I usually don’t read, fiction books. Like I like to, yeah, I like to watch fiction stuff. But reading I, I really don’t.
[00:24:43] But Dan Brown was one of those types of books that mended those two together. So I’m gonna I’m gonna get it. Thanks for that recommendation.
[00:24:51] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah. So I think you’ll find things in there that, yeah, that will speak to what y- what you’re asking.
[00:24:57] Omar Cumberbatch: Okay.
[00:24:58] Dr. Irena O’Brien: And yes, there are philosophers, and I know there’s, yeah, there’s lots of writing.
[00:25:04] But my focus really is on making brain science practical. So that people can change their lives in the way that they want, in a positive way. And so one of the things to f- to really, that I really focus on is about encouraging or trying to live more in a parasympathetic dominant state.
[00:25:26] Okay. Most of us are living in a sympathetic dominant state, and that is energy demanding. So most of us are at are at rock bottom when it comes to, when it comes to energy. And so to live in a parasympathetic state… and it and our psychology affects our mitochondria function.
[00:25:45] That is shown now. And so to, to live… So what I mean by that is about finding ways to Relax the nervous system, but not in a way… in, in a truly generative way. And to, to resource ourselves. And we should often be, We should always be thinking about that- to really resource ourselves and create the energy, and the energy that we need. And what you’ll find is that then all of the things that we struggle with become easier- … when we have the energy, right? Because the brain is constantly determining, managing our energy needs, and and p- and predicting our energy needs.
[00:26:31] So if you can help the brain manage its energy needs ahead of time, it’s gonna make better predictions for you. And there are many ways that people use. A meditation is one if that works for you. Deep sleep at night is huge. There’s no way around that. Deep sleep at night.
[00:26:52] Exercise also. Without going overboard on the exercise. But just enough exercise without being extreme. Of course diet is. If you’re eating a really, a junk food diet, it is gonna affect your energy. But your coaches, you and your coaches are working with the diet part of it.
[00:27:12] Other things. I like music. I use music a lot. And the music should be have a rhythm to it, have a beat to it. Because the brain entrains to the beat. And the brain likes certainty. And a regular beat is certainty, creates certainty for the brain. So that can be restorative.
[00:27:34] Omar Cumberbatch: Okay.
[00:27:35] Dr. Irena O’Brien: There are other things. Let me think about some of the other things. I use primarily breathing, sleep, and music. So any joyful activities, time with family and friends, all of those things. Also, it… All of those are restorative to the brain.
[00:27:52] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah, though, so-
[00:27:53] Dr. Irena O’Brien: And the body. ‘Cause there is no difference between the brain and the body.
[00:27:56] We’re a mind-body system.
[00:27:58] Omar Cumberbatch: So I guess d- y- it… what you’re explaining, too, is the stress response has to be regulated as well, just in general. You s- less stress in your life, whatever
[00:28:07] Dr. Irena O’Brien: that’s
[00:28:07] Omar Cumberbatch: like-
[00:28:10] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yes. Mitigate the stress, right? Resource yourself from- Yes … the stress.
[00:28:15] And ch- any ch- so then change that you want becomes easier.
[00:28:20] Omar Cumberbatch: Okay. So a- as far as th- tho- those are definitely things. Are there any neu- I guess to end, is there anything that are considered like neural hacks that are out there that a lot of… Because I do h- come across different quote-unquote hacks.
[00:28:36] Everyone loves hacks, right? Do you have any that you would recommend, or you, do you think it’s not something that is actually relevant in this field?
[00:28:44] Dr. Irena O’Brien: I am, I don’t tend to focus on on neuro hacks.
[00:28:48] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah.
[00:28:49] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Yeah Other than Yeah my, my really my, my focus is yeah, on the predictive brain.
[00:29:00] The brain is built for survival for survival and safety, and we need to look at everything through that lens and through the th- and through energetic capacity. Willpower, for example. If you’re having trouble with willpower, it’s more likely a capacity, energetic capacity issue that you, your brain j- you just don’t have the energy for that, and your brain has determined you don’t have the energy for that.
[00:29:22] Omar Cumberbatch: Interesting. This is a fascinating
[00:29:26] Dr. Irena O’Brien: conver- And small steps, right? Tiny steps Yeah. If any hack, that would be the hack, is tiny steps. People like big change.
[00:29:32] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah.
[00:29:33] Dr. Irena O’Brien: But that doesn’t e- right?
[00:29:35] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah.
[00:29:35] Dr. Irena O’Brien: You don’t… Change comes in tiny steps.
[00:29:38] Omar Cumberbatch: Yeah, sustainable change for sure. Yeah.
[00:29:41] That’s absolutely true. Yeah, this is fascinating. I love the topic, and I think that all the health coaches are gonna get a lot out of this episode. So I know that you were gonna give us a gift, a parting gift today, which we really appreciate. So I definitely gonna give you an opportunity to break that out on us, and I also wanna give you a d- a chance to share all your social media handles, your website, any way that we can keep in contact with you and all the great stuff that you’re doing.
[00:30:08] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Okay. Wonderful. Yes, Omar, I have put something together for your audience, and it’s called the Applied Neuroscience Starter Kit.
[00:30:16] Omar Cumberbatch: Oh, nice.
[00:30:17] Dr. Irena O’Brien: And it’s for anyone whose work involves helping people change, right? Such coaches, therapists, and practitioners, and anyone who wants to bring real science into the way they do that.
[00:30:28] And here’s what most of us were never taught. We were never taught the neuroscience. We learned frameworks, then we learned questions to ask, but nobody explained what the brain is actually doing- … when someone tries to change. And that’s not your fault. It simply wasn’t in the training. So here’s what this is about.
[00:30:45] So the first piece is the neuroscience of why clients get stuck, and it gives you 10 insights into what’s actually happening when someone understands what they need to do but can’t seem to do it, such as why willpower fails, why insight isn’t enough, and what the nervous system needs instead. And each one comes with something you can use in your next session.
[00:31:07] And the second piece is the brain-based change blueprint that shows you the three conditions that have to be present before change becomes possible: safety, capacity, and small repeated steps. And we talked about that today. So it’s the same framework I’ve taught to over 700 pra- practitioners over the past decade.
[00:31:27] So if you work with people who keep falling back into old patterns, this will show you why and what to do about it. So just go to loveneuroscience.com/academy, and you’ll get both pieces immediately. So that’s loveneuroscience.com- /academy
[00:31:45] Omar Cumberbatch: Oh, wow. Appreciate that. And so how can we keep up with w- you with all this stuff?
[00:31:50] Dr. Irena O’Brien: You can find me at neuroscienceschool.com. That’s my website. I have a podcast, Neuroscience of Coaching.
[00:31:58] Omar Cumberbatch: Okay.
[00:31:59] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Which is in the top 5% –
[00:32:02] Omar Cumberbatch: Awesome …
[00:32:02] Dr. Irena O’Brien: of podcasts. Yeah. And I’m on LinkedIn @irenaobrien, I-R-E-N-A O-B-R-I-E-N.
[00:32:10] Omar Cumberbatch: Wonderful. Thank you so much for popping up on this early morning today, and I hope you have a great rest of the day.
[00:32:18] Dr. Irena O’Brien: Thank you so much, Omar.
[00:32:20] Omar Cumberbatch: Appreciate you
